Posts by just n from bethel

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

just n from bethel

"Are you calling yourselves bad association?" - By the WT definition absolutely. The problem is I don't claim to believe that definition. You on the other hand claim to believe the WT teachings on a lot of things (but not all - like posting here). So what about you - are you bad association for JWs since you're posting here brazenly ignoring WT counsel? You certainly are a time waster that's for sure. I tell you what - when you admit in clear words that you are violating WT teachings to even be here - then I'll consider discussing more worthwhile topics with you. But as long as you cannot admit that simple truth - everything else you post has nothing to stand on.

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

just n from bethel

By the Way debator, besides your apologetic pride - who asked you to come here so that observers could see 'both sides'? The org is very clear that their website and publications are sufficient. Again - I'm not knocking you being here, but your claimed purpose of presenting both sides - particularly when you really don't do it well, is this something you feel Jehovah wants you to do?

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

just n from bethel

Elderelite : you beat me to it.

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

just n from bethel

Debator: A quick glance on this site in less than 90 seconds makes it obvious that 95% of the particpants are obviously ex-jws - and the other 4.99% may be active but certainly no longer believe JWs are "the truth" - likely many only keep their membership in the org for sake of friends and family. In other words, they're not True believing JWs - they don't believe the GB is the mouthpiece of God as claimed.

Obviously the latter is where I'm at. The funny thing is - so are you. Every poster and every lurker sees that.

Yes this site welcomes anybody, even non-JWs. But the official stance of true believers in the JW org, particularly of the (believing) elders, the GB, The FDS, the Watchtower and all things related to those who call themselves faithful JWs is that this site is Not for Witnesses. No matter how much you try and tell yourself that it's a personal choice - a matter for self-regulating - the fact is that you wouldn't dare reveal your presence here to anybody in your congregation because you know they think it would be wrong.

And I'm not telling you not to come here.

But you well know that you are associating with disfellowshipped people here. If you hadn't known that important detail prior to this post, then you are really dense and shouldn't try debating any doctrine when you can't even recognize simple facts. (The most simple of facts is that there are many here with whom you interact with that are DFd.)

So - again, I know who I am and I know what it means by me being here. It means that I don't think JWs have "the Truth" - If I thought so I would follow their direction on matters about associating with DFd individuals and apostates and websites that let people get into debates about JW doctrine - all of this is forbidden - and every active JW knows that. It is clear in articles like the 6/15 2006 WT and the 99KM. So those that do come here - even WT apologetics such as yourself - realize that everything that comes from the WT, doesn't have to be believed as truth. If you feel the direction in the WT and KMs don't apply to you in this matter - and you come up with some excuse: 'well this web site title says it's for JWs';

Well, keep telling yourself whatever you have to. But do keep coming here if you desire - associate with DFd ones as you like. Interact with apostates. Get caught up in debates. Doing so will show the world that you feel that the teachings from your religion to not do this... don't apply to you. And by confirming that, you allow for the idea that other teachings from your religion may not be right either. And again, for that, we thank you.

12

Fading and the Blood Issue

by brotherdan in

jw
friends

hey everyone,.

so most of you know my story and gave me the advice of taking things slow with my wife and not rushing her in regards to leaving the "o".

so i have been taking things slow, saying things that i appreciated from the meetings, and keeping my mouth shut in regards to everything that makes me want to vomit.. last night we were talking (very amiably) about some things that i said on a youtube comment, which she busted me about.

just n from bethel

BD - just so you know, you didn't puss out. Avoiding arguments and keeping peace in your home, sometimes means temporarily letting your wife hear what she wants to hear. You're at a place where you need to find words that will allow you to present your new understanding of this matter in a way that she can accept. She doesn't have to believe it herself- but she has to accept it - and as long as there is not a pressing medical issue at the very moment, then the acceptance could be allowed to come gradually.

"It was just talking about how if my son needed a blood transfusion I would no longer be able to keep quiet."

If this ever happened, you would likely actually have the right to keep quiet. (HIPPA) That is, nobody has to know what medical procedures you and trained medical staff decide. Instead of saying you won't keep quiet - why not point out that, over and over the WT has emphasized how medical decisions are a personal and private matter. While you have no intention of promoting any particular medical procedure to other JWs, What you personally choose will remain between you, the doctors, and God.

Another thing that might help is to look at the various articles where the WT has changed their belief on certain medical uses of blood, i.e. fractions, autologous, etc. Note the wording - it never says "It is now permitted" - rather it says " Some have felt their consciences would allow [xyz fraction, etc.]". This means that prior to the article being written making previously forbidden procedures a conscience matter (i.e. Acceptable) - "SOME" went ahead and accepted the forbidden fractions or whatever. Does that make sense? Basically the articles have stated that even though certain procedures were forbidden by WT policy - some went ahead with them according to their conscience. Were they condemned? No - actually the WT eventually brought it out that IT WAS A CONSCIENCE MATTER and presented it as new light so to speak.

So when things are nice and calm between you and your wife, and you can build up to a non-antagonistic conversation on her part and yours - ask her how is it some felt their conscience would allow things that the previous policy had forbidden? How was it they were not DF'd or reproved - but rather left alone and eventually used as an example on how it would be ok to view certain procedures?

Anyway - there are a lot of ways to approach this topic and it's very important to do so. But just remind her that husbands and wives should be allowed to have different consciences on matters like fractions, etc. If a spouse demanded that they have the same conscience on such matters and felt otherwise they shouldn't be married, that spouse certainly would not be respecting the sanctity of marriage. Once, perhaps after time has passed, she truly has accepted your stance on conscience and fractions, then she should also be willing to accept your understanding that a fraction might include RBCs, and plasma since the your trained conscience can't find the Bible-based definition for fractions to exclude such.

Anyway, pm me if you want to discuss this more.

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

just n from bethel

Debator said "Is this an offical apostate site then? My understanding is that it is a site for witnesses to debate. As witnessese are warned about internet usage as we are warned on Television and other easily abused entertainment and social outlets but it is more of a self-regulating issue, personal conscience in fact."

Whatever you need to tell yourself debator. This is just another example of your cognitive dissonance. You say you think this is a site for Witnesses to debate??? is that to debate one another, i.e. witnesses debating witnesses? C'mon - that's about the stupidest statement I've ever heard. That's like somebody saying 'I'm just checking out porn to see how bad it is. Besides, it's really a conscience matter anyway.' Let me clear this up for you right now.

I am still an active elder and can tell you first hand by experience that if your BOE found out you were visiting this site - even if you were so naive to think you were just trying to debate with other witnesses - they would counsel you with many recent articles and basically tell you not to do it. If you continued, you probably wouldn't be disfellowshipped but you would certainly be marked. However, depending on the BOE, one might even bring it up with the CO, and he might recommend making it a judicial matter as you have Blatantly shown a disregard for the FDS and strong specific counsel given to you numerous times. Your brazen attitude could be considered one of Loose Conduct.

There are very few, if any, full on full believiing and practicing witnesses here. (Your posts are now starting to make me question if you really are) If there are some that lurk here and don't post, as did I for a few months - well then I must say that your posts will be significant in derailing their faith in the JW org. To watch you fail at making any kind of convincing argument about the charitable acts of WT - and then stubbornly refuse to admit where you're wrong - you remind too many lurkers of the mentality present among the JWs. Basically it's something like this "I'm right about everything - you're wrong about everything where you don't see eye to eye with me about JW doctrine"

But the fact is - you are here. You know inside you're deliberately disobeying so-called 'Bible based counsel by the FDS'. Have you ever heard the illustration about how you wouldn't invite somebody bad into your home, but you'd be willing to have them in via tv (now the internet). You're actually doing much worse than that - you're having two way interaction with those who in your mind have left Jehovah, right in your very own home. Anybody that sees your posts knows that you're not trying to post for other JWs. What makes you think other JWs even need you to do that for them.

But despite your denials, your actions say something very clear - that you don't believe all the direction from the WT applies to you.

In doing so, you are also saying that you don't believe the direction from the WT comes from God. Indeed this is something we both have in common. I realize you'll find some kind of illogical words to deny this - but you're here - so your actions say something different. Thus, regardless of the failed content of your posts - their very existence reiterates what we already know: The WT and JWs are not God's sole channel for humanity. For confirming that, debator, we thank you.

68

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-11-10 WT Study (WOMEN SUBMIT)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 07-11-10 wt study (may 15, 2010, pages 12-16)(women submit).

jehovah has established the orderly sequence that the apostle paul mentioned when he wrote that "the head of every man is the christ" and "the head of the christ is god.

what man is their head?.

just n from bethel

Thanks Zid - I like your name. I think even Judaism pre-Judean Kingdom wouldn't have been so bad. If any man started to give their wife crap, she could've just claimed that in a vision she'd been appointed a judge. After condemning that lying b%stard to cities of refuge for 7 years, she could've then had some peace.

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

just n from bethel

XYZ - I don't think Paulapollos is in the same category as the others. For that matter I don't even think debator is in the same category as Alice and Bane. While I don't care about Bane or Alice since their posts come straight form the loony bin, debator on the other hand seems to have a certain sincerity in his posts. Thus a few posts up, I mentioned something similar to your concern - pointing out that debator's very posts here fly in the face of JW counsel. Interestingly, he has not come back here since I pointed this out. Hope he does though, cause I'm interested in his response.

21

wow

by elderelite in

just n from bethel

Elderelite - just think how great your life could be if only you would step up and be a man, instead of that doormat you are. Think of all the benefits that await you. You could be here for another 7 years coming online day in and day out - criticizing everybody that doesn't do things exactly the way you did. Think about how awesome such a life would be.

So come on - quit being so respectful to your wife and family. Who cares how they feel?!! You now realize that you have been born into the only religion that lies to its believers. Everybody outside of the JW religion has total enlightment, and you know this now - it's a proven fact because it's in writing on the internet. It's now indisputable and if you can't man up and yank yourself out like a band aid, then you'll regret it for the rest of your life.

Yeah, sure, your wife, family, and friends will probably hate you. There could be divorce and custody issues that arise - but a rash decision of this nature will be completely worth it. You're guaranteed freedom and countless years of a quality internet forum life. If any of your family or friends question you, just tell them that this is what the Bible says, "No one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news who will not get a hundredfold [right away on the interweb]" (brackets mine).

Bottom line is that if they can't see how awesome you are for giving the finger to their most treasured belief system - then it's their loss. Who cares if you have to crash on Moshe's couch for a few years - you da man and you showed them - that's all that matters.

Ok - I'm turning my sarcasm software off now. In reality, elderelite, your level headed posts are some of the most refreshing to follow for lurkers. I do believe that some here might easily get bitter and cynical - but it seems that you've got that under control. I hope to follow your lead.

68

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-11-10 WT Study (WOMEN SUBMIT)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 07-11-10 wt study (may 15, 2010, pages 12-16)(women submit).

jehovah has established the orderly sequence that the apostle paul mentioned when he wrote that "the head of every man is the christ" and "the head of the christ is god.

what man is their head?.

just n from bethel

"wasting somebody's time and physical and mental resources"

now this I do get.

I just don't think that type of "taking advantage of" is limited to women in the org- but rather applies to every congo member. I also think that's what every religion does as well. Some just are extreme about it in the worst way - which imo, makes JWs treatment of women far better than many other religions, orgs, and even cultures.

I'm not saying it doesn't fall short, not by any means. It's just that when I look for universal truths, I find that any religion that adhere's to sexist treatment of women based on ancient cultures and belief systems - well they're pretty much all at fault. So it turns me away from religion. But if I did believe the Bible should be intrepreted literally like JWs do, then I would say they are at least as reasonable as any other fundy christian denom - in that respect. Which again, I still don't think is good enough, at least not for the universal truth that encompasses human equality.

In the end though, if one is born into the JW religion, it wouldn't be the worst for women. And if they can laugh out loud at a convention at the older speaker who doesn't know what "tap that..." means - then I think such ones have a lot of potential to see beyond the dogmaticism of the JW world view.